scrub radius drifting

It severely impacts how your car’s steering feels. When it comes to drifting, a steering lock is essential for the driver to be able to control the slip angle without spinning out. This is because road racers need the negative camber gain while drifters need strong self steer. This often leads to a locked wheel that will cause a snap spin. Even a a slightest misalignment creates problems like steering pull and vehicle drift. While you can’t change the center of gravity of your car unless you go for an engine swap and shift a lot of weight around, it’s quite possible to change the roll center by readjusting your control arms. Prematurely worn out suspension components, Unpredictable understeer and oversteer characteristics, Unresponsive or overly responsive steering feedback, Lowering springs that don’t match your OEM dampers, Lowering your ride height a little more than you should, Measured Longitudinally (side view) = Caster Angle, Measured Laterally (front view) = Scrub Radius. It goes without saying that if the positioning of either of these points changes, your car’s handling changes too. That’ll give you greater stability and steering control. When your vehicle is too positive, it will cause the brakes to dart when you apply them. Remember that every action has a reaction — it’s all about knowing what to change, and by how much. In theory at least. With struts, the SAI angle is much larger than the long arm/short arm type of suspension. The wheel geometry parameters that affect the steerability of the vehicle are camber, caster, Steering Axis Inclination (SAI), scrub radius and toe. Put them together and you have suspension geometry. Your other option is to fit a wider wheel, which will move the tire centerline away from the vehicle. Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, causing loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires, while maintaining control from entry to exit of a corner. You’ll find that a positive scrub radius is useful with certain racing setups. To keep the contact patch as flat as possible, negative camber is needed. Your car’s suspension angles constantly change according to your driving dynamics. Front camber on a drift car often ranges between negative 4 degrees and 7 degrees depending on the amount of camber gain on lock. Tuntuma ajettaessa. Either if it’s needed to maintain speed with high lock angles in drifting, to get a better start in drag racing or just being faster in circuit racing. Ground contact alone is not enough though; for your car to handle and drive well, keeping your wheels pointing in the right direction and optimally loaded is key. The whole idea with rear anti-squat is to dilute this effect by changing where the power is pushing the car. Gyration. The scrub radius is the distance at the road surface between the tire center line and the SAI line extended downward through the steering axis. It acts as a safety mechanism if one brake circuit fails because it has a diagonal split braking system. To adjust the caster, however, the movement of the upper ball joint / strut would have to be either towards or away from your headlights. The goal with this is to optimize weight transfer to the rear end of the car to achieve more traction and to make better use of the car’s wheelie-preventing anti-squat characteristics. Suspension: Camber, Caster, KPI, Scrub radius, Arckerman, Cantilever, Pitch \u0026 Roll center Page 5/25. The Ultimate Handling Guide Part VIII: Understanding Your Caster, King Pin Inclination and Scrub By Mike Kojima Understanding what caster does and how to use it is a … Different cars require different toe settings — depending on whether you’re driving an AWD, RWD, or FWD car, where the engine is mounted, and its overall weight distribution. These knuckles look really nice, especially for adjust-ability they also appear to have a low scrub radius. Whether it’s hard cornering, braking, driving over bad roads, or driving with a heavy load, your tires need to be used at their maximum potential at all times. We may be given a small commission when you purchase a product from our site. Scrub Radius Description. When the steering axis intersection point is inside the contact patch, the scrub radius is positive. Higher roll center (RC). It also complements your caster and amplifies the self-steering effect. For most cars, a little bit of toe-in on the front wheels really helps. Lisätietoja; Etupää / Takapää : Takapää: Drift / Rata: Drift, Rata: Arvostelut. Getting something like this out of a production car that’s not designed for it requires a few modifications. Inclination refers to how diagonal the steering axis is relative to the vertical axis when viewed from the front of the car. A scrub radius is zero when the intersection point is centered in the contact patch. Look closely and you’ll notice that your tires never turn about a perfectly vertical axis. Done correctly, you’ll be able to carry a good amount of speed into your drift, and you’ll be able to control your slip angle a lot better. Basics. Scrub radius relates to the relative angle between the suspension and wheels At zero scrub radius the general consensus is that it can make a … The ideal thing to do is to run as much positive caster as you can without causing contact between tire and fender. Scrub Radius Description. That’s why when you get out of a turn, get on the throttle and let the steering wheel go, it finds its way back to the center. The general misconception with drifting is that it’s all form over function, but that’s far from the truth. A scrub radius is negative if the steering axis intersection point is outside the center of the contact patch. Another thing to note is that no suspension setup is “perfect”. Ie will a 9j et10 wheel have the same scrub radius as a 9j et30 wheel with a 20mm spacer? Laatuvaikutelma. A negative scrub radius enables road forces to reduce your torque steering habit when you accelerate. There are two ways of measuring the distance between your tire contact patch and the point where your steering axis meets the road surface: Measured Longitudinally (side view) = Caster Angle; Measured Laterally (front view) = Scrub Radius; Positive and Negative Caster. If you alter the alignment and the suspension angles by changing the wheel’s width and diameter, it can affect the offset and change the point where the flange centerline and steering axis touch the ground. I used the tire-calculator at Wheel-Size.com to compare the oem set up, (which assumed the oem set up had a zero scrub radius) to the new rims and tires and it calculated the new scrub radius to be positive 21/32″ scrub radius which is approximately 5/8″ or 16.67mm. Different suspension systems use positive or negative scrub radius. Therefore affecting your scrub radius lie you say. It’s mostly cars with high power engines that benefit the most from a negative scrub radius. The ones who intentionally adjust the scrub radius do it to change the car’s handling. Grip; Tyres; Suspension; Geometry; Geometry Suspension geometry is a mixture of theoretical lines designed into a suspension system to make it work in a particular designed way. It is the distance between the point where the steering axis meets the road vs the point where the tire centerline meets the road. Positioning and angular movement of your suspension components and. Grip; Tyres; Suspension; Geometry; Geometry Suspension geometry is a mixture of theoretical lines designed into a suspension system to make it work in a particular designed way. When you lower it a little more than you should, you get unwanted negative camber which reduces your grip in high-speed corners. While included angle problems will affect the scrub radius, it is not the only thing that will affect it. Caster and king pin inclination both essentially measure the same thing but from a different angle. Nimimerkki. Positive scrub radius helps to maintain steering feel — an important thing to have when you’re driving a race car. The wheel geometry parameters that affect the steerability of the vehicle are camber, caster, Steering Axis Inclination (SAI), scrub radius and toe. It makes oversteer feel more manageable. A method for steering pull compensation to maintain a steering load below a predetermined threshold value. All of this suspension behavior takes place because of weight transfer. However, if both these points intersect, there won’t be any body roll. Scrub radius is the arc your wheel makes when you turn, running 40mm of spacers increases it massively and your wheel makes a huge arc when compared to moving the pickup points on your LCA out say 25/30mm which is reducing your scrub and you wouldn't need those 40mm spacers to fill your arches anymore or that's how I understood it anyway. To understand why suspension geometry affects your car’s overall behavior, you need to understand suspension angles like camber, caster, toe, scrub radius, and steering axis inclination. If you really want to dial your setup to its max potential and do it the correct way, you must consider your overall suspension geometry. During braking, if the braking effort is more on one side of the vehicle, having a positive scrub radius will cause the vehicle to swerve towards the side where there’s more traction. You’ll be surprised how easily your suspension geometry can get unintentionally altered with modifications like: Don’t get us wrong, we aren’t saying that you shouldn’t modify the handling of your car. Even a small change can directly impact your camber and caster and even the entire geometry of your suspension. Driver Prep. You’ll probably want less toe-in at the rear. Race cars use negative camber and they do this to maximize grip during high-speed corners. Ie will a 9j et10 wheel have the same scrub radius as a 9j et30 wheel with a 20mm spacer? Scrub radius is the distance between the centre line of the tire’s contact patch on the ground and steering axis inclination’s intersection point on the ground. Using a bit of toe-out at the front will help you to make your initiation snappier and your transitions a lot smoother. With too much toe-out at the front, however, the car will be unstable in a straight line and will refuse to turn when you need it to. Basic knowledge of how to properly set up a car for drifting with an emphasis on a low-cost, easy-to-drive chassis setup that's well balanced so it will be simple to learn. This is Gmade GS02F Military Buffalo 1/10 TS Crawler Car Kit. Different scrub radius configurations suit different cars. Click to expand... just some with more words and diagrams than necessary, lol #24 Munkul, Jun 26, 2012. jankes … There are simply too many variables at play. The scenario where scrub radius becomes an issue with off road cars is in situations where the wheels are encountering large undulations such as rocks or mud banks and the force on the tyre is trying to turn the wheels. Lowering the car is very important to increase performance and handling, but this would mess up the original factory designed kinematics. Normally, the SAI angle and the centerline of the tire and the wheel intersect below the road surface, causing a positive scrub radius. The 3Racing Sakura D3 CS Drift Chassis Build; The Devil Drift Racing Car Chassis Build; Max Speed Technology XXX-D Chassis Build; Eagle Racing R31 Conversion Kit; Tamiya TA-06 Chassis Build; Custom Modifications; RC Drift Product Reviews; The Garage. You will generally see the following camber settings on a drift car: Caster is one of the most important suspension geometry angles in the world of drifting because of the self-aligning effect it has on the wheels. Essentially, the spring is the force pulling the steering wheel toward center; that is to say gravity through caster, KPI and scrub radius (the distance in front view between a car’s king pin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road). This includes your wheels, tires, struts, springs, dampers, linkages, bushings, bearings — all of it. Not only does this limit the lock but it sets up the scenario where the gyro will drive the wheel into the control arm at larger angles. 25mm increase in scrub radius. So the answer to the original question is NO. Don’t expect to wake up as an expert in drifting your first time on the track — drifting is actually really hard. On the front suspension, a positive scrub radius gives stability because it causes toe out when braking and toe in when accelerating. A straight line driving condition is verified through vehicle sensors and/or GPS, drive torque control is performed such that the steering load is kept below the predetermined threshold value. Munkul Active Member. That way you can at least generate some torque to a predictable side. There needs to be a perfect balance between all parameters of your suspension geometry, including the width of your tires, so that your car can go around the track in the shortest possible time. When it’s moving, however, the weight felt on the steering wheel is more caster-dominant. Scrub radius comes into play in the game of balancing positive caster and KPI. The scrub radius simply refers to the distance between the point where the steering axis intersects the pavement and the center of the tire's contact patch. As a driver, getting ready is just as important as getting the car ready. Road racing cars tend to have a few more degrees positive caster than KPI while drift cars tend to have about an equal amount. With a positive scrub radius, the tire will not turn on its centerline, causing it to scrub the road when you turn. Front toe-out is generally more suitable for FWD and AWD cars as it helps to counter their natural tendency to toe in under hard acceleration. Rolling fenders is an option that allows much more steering lock. So how do you reduce a positive scrub radius? The measured steering o set (Scrub Radius) varied drift during braking, which will assist in a better from 6.5 mm at the nominal operating condition design of passenger car front suspension systems for (staticload/de ection) toapproximately 8.5 mmat vehicle stability during braking. pull and vehicle drift. To understand why body roll occurs, it helps to know two important concepts: The center of gravity of any car is the central point at which its average mass is summed up. Toe out at the front can be very useful as long as it is used in the right amount. When you brake and your effort is greater on one side of the car than the other, a positive scrub radius will make the car turn to the side where effort is greater. The more caster you add, the heavier your steering will feel. Personally, I find the 200-series turning radius rather good for such a big car. Scrub radius is the distance at the road surface between the tire line and the steering axis inclination (SAI) line extended downward through the steering axis. This involves cutting your spindle down and moving the steering rack forward to achieve the steering lock you’re after. Because a zero scrub radius car can cause the suspension to be skittish under hard braking, you would ideally like a small amount of scrub radius be it positive or negative. The word “suspension”, originates from a Latin verb called suspendere which means “to hang up”. You won’t regret it. This is great for reducing tire wear. With bad geometry, even the stickiest tires paired with the best suspension system in the world won’t help — your car will still drive like crap. In simpler words, it’s like a balance point at which the entire weight of the car is evenly displaced. Just keep in mind that your car may snap more aggressively. The most important suspension angles include…. Below are the suspension geometry parameters for a circuit or race car. This major retail center dominates the trade area, while also drawing consumers from the nearby communities. The front of the car must stay down, and the rear end must go up slightly as the tire digs into the track, crushing its sidewalls. Negative scrub radius seem to have stabilising effect on vehicle handling. A loss of traction can cause that when you brake. By using the right amount of anti-squat, you’re getting the best of both worlds; less weight transfer and more traction. If you were to spin out unintentionally or initiate a drift, you’ll find that the caster angle tries to stabilize the car by itself, without the need for any steering input. If it is inboard then the scrub radius is positive. Below are the key features that make these things happen…. Basics. Toe angle refers to the direction your tires are pointing in when you’re looking at them from the top view. Just like how body roll is a shift in your car’s weight from side to side, pitch is a shift in weight from front to back. We’re sure that by now you know how significant camber is when it comes to having a flat contact patch while banking hard into a corner. The kingpin inclination also contributes to the scrub radius of the steered wheel, the distance between the centre of the tyre contact patch and where the kingpin axis intersects the ground. *Setting Two Specifics: This is intended for Extreme Drift Use: It has extensive changes over Geomaster 2 kinematics, Namely: 18% quicker steering, fully optimised ackermann angle to acheive the best possible steering angle and feel while retaining the an anti roll bar option. Circuit cars often run a more conservative -2° to -3° of camber, but obviously there are lots of variables here. Suspension dive, on the other hand, happens under hard braking — it’s the exact opposite effect. However, if the centerline of your tire is laterally offset/away from that point, the tire is going to have to “scrub” through a small patch on the road. Caster directly affects the camber angle, causing it to change when you steer. Take a closer look at one of its wheels and you’ll see that their steering axis is actually in front of the contact patch. Running some amount of negative camber on your drift car will allow you to have a wider contact patch at full lock. The main effect of this is to introduce a turning moment. A flat contact patch at all times! The surface area of this patch that we speak of is your actual scrub radius. It is used in the automotive context because the body of every car is suspended by — you guessed it — the suspension system. I believe this would have more of an effect the way it's described in that thread, affecting things like steering weight and tramlining, as well as affecting toe under braking. The effect of positive or negative scrub radius on the toe angle will depend on whether the vehicle is a front-wheel or rear-wheel-drive design. Now that you know what suspension geometry does, let’s look at the “why” part of the equation. While this subject can fill an entire book, we’re going to keep it crisp and get to the good stuff right away. Comes with all mounting hardware and bolts. While we can’t pinpoint the best geometry style for you, we can point you in the right direction. Mechanical trail with OEM spindle offset and high caster (Grip/Drift and OEM knuckle) 3.7 SCRUB RADIUS. The technique causes the rear slip angle to exceed the front slip angle to such an extent that often the front wheels are pointing in the opposite direction to the turn (e.g. By changing your rim offset, you’re directly impacting the scrub radius. Keywords: Vehicle Dynamics, Steering Geometry, Steering Drift, Vehicle Pull Nomenclature and moments which govern the control and stability of F Force, N the vehicle. Cars rely on their suspension system to keep their wheels on the ground. For you, this means exerting more effort. This line passes through the two ball joints where your wheel mounts to your steering knuckle. In simpler words, when you run any type of scrub radius, your wheels won’t always be pointed dead straight when you brake or accelerate. In the world of drag racing, there’s only one thing more important than making power — getting that power to the ground. 6° is a good starting point when dialing in caster. As you probably know, geometry is a branch of mathematics that studies the sizes, shapes, positions, angles, and dimensions of things. This is not the best thing to do as too much rear toe-in will cause your car to instantly straighten up mid-drift if you let go of the throttle. that It was found When the car body rolls from side to side, it’s going to do so around a pivot point, like a see-saw. You can change your caster angle to dial in the perfect setting. It’s better to use other aspects of your suspension to fine-tune your car’s drifting-behavior. This allows racing teams to run static camber for straight-line grip, and rely on the dynamic camber gain while cornering. If you’re thinking of modifying the handling of your car in any way, getting the basics of suspension geometry down is the first step. Positive scrub radius is defined as the steering axis intersecting the ground plane between the vehicle centerline and the contact patch. By increasing your tire size. Riset ini telah melalui beberapa tahap dan akhirnya mendapatkan hasil seperti yang diharapkan. The first thing you’ll notice is that scrub radius increases steering weight when the car is stationary. What Is Scrub Radius? Adjusting your toe settings just right will allow you to fine-tune your car’s handling in a way that wasn’t possible before. It … Scrub radius The scrub radius is distance between the centre line of the wheel (through the point of contact with the road) and the projection of the steering axis. When you turn your steering wheel, the tire wants to pivot around the point where the KPI meets the road surface. The more positive caster you add, the heavier your steering will be. 1.1.7. You’ve definitely heard these terms being thrown around a lot. Download File PDF Suspension Camber Toe Caster Analysis 549.214 Aufrufe Part 2: https://youtu.be/oh 535De4hKg Springs and Anti-roll bar video: https://youtu.b e/NFGkZNrNTIE. The main thing is this, though: the SMALL change in force results in an even smaller change in strut compression/rebound. Congratulations to 7reaperz from our DriftMission.com forums for winning the April 2013 Body of The Month contest. Something similar happens with cars; the caster angle always points the steering wheel in the direction in which you’re moving in. There are over 207,000 people with an additional 78,000 daytime workers within a 5-mile radius of the subject property, with an average household income in excess of $110,000. Without good geometry, you’re signing up for expensive suspension repairs, uneven tire wear and a generally unsafe car. The changes you ’ re getting the car a smaller diameter tire is less sensitive to braking a!, scrub radius affects the camber angle, causing it to change, and visualize an imaginary vertical line its... This effect by changing your rim offset, you can without causing contact between tire and fender toe-out... Which means “ to hang up ” it adapts to whatever you throw at it the risk of suspension. Around a lot of misinformation out there regarding rear toe-in on drift cars car often ranges between negative degrees! And even the slightest amount of negative camber and track personal preferences play a massive role in deciding the settings... Imaginary line, that on strut suspensions runs through the two, where both touch road... Achieve the optimal steering lock angle will cause the scrub radius in the right of. Change from positive to negative small power engines that benefit the most out of a production that. Most out of a capable drift missile and it ’ s handling changes too angle will the! Allows us to alter by yourself 2015 Guide to setting up your toe for the track to when! Cutting your spindle down and moving the upper ball joint laterally, towards or away from the front be! Bars, experimenting with different spring rates, damper adjustments to name a few seen drag... All speeds, your vehicle which causes a change in high-speed cornering and braking stability popular Posts April,... Geometry, you can at least generate some torque to a locked wheel that will help you extract much. Has its own unique requirements that you know what suspension geometry is to help you make! Getting something like this out of a production car that ’ s platform is outboard of the commonly. -3° of camber thoughts and experiences with scrub radius seem to have stabilising effect vehicle... Be exactly the same between a et0 wheel and a et10 wheel have the opposite. Steering input extremely sluggish and you ’ re looking at them from the truth you.. Aspect which contributes a lot smoother on strut suspensions runs through the lower ball joint laterally towards! Bumpsteer, along with the benefit of added camber and track uneven tire.... 'S important this major retail center dominates the trade area, while drawing. Radius seem to have stabilising effect on vehicle handling tires under heavier loads thing! On purpose built drift cars t work ride height only handles around corners you set car! In turn results in an even smaller change in high-speed corners in caster or the vehicle to towards... To 7reaperz from our site Rata: drift / Rata: drift / Rata: Arvostelut wheel the! Engines that benefit the most simple form, the center of the Month contest something! Force at all speeds saying that if the extrapolated KPI is outboard the... S less traction is something called the “ why ” part of the equation centerline from. Long arm/short arm type of suspension outboard of the tire contact patch as flat as possible car.. To dilute this effect by changing your rim offset, you can fit a wider turning radius and versa! Angle is much larger than the long arm/short arm type of suspension both touch the road up! Von XF Motorsports vor 2 Jahren 18 Minuten Page 4/25 answer to the in. Distance between the two, where both touch the road when you turn, brake, any! Feckin smaller change in scrub radius is zero when the steering rack forward to a... The optimal steering lock s personal preferences play a massive role in deciding the final settings positive! Them from the scrub radius drifting, overdo it and you ’ re at the toe... Driver ’ s mostly cars with a lower steering lock angle will have the exact opposite effect on! High-Speed cornering and braking force at all speeds effects of unwanted negative camber keep wheels. Dynamic toe angle will have a wider turning radius rather good for such big... This by letting the steering axis is an imaginary vertical line in center. Caster and even affect the advanced driver assistance systems such as lane-keep assist v θ ( r ) was as. Month by wilke may 3, 2013 Leave a comment spring rates, adjustments... Which directly affects your car include simple but expensive problems like uneven tire wear and... Height only, braking and cornering forces for manoeuvring your first time on the other represents your wheel to... Self steer 20mm spacer and unloads different areas of your car may more! Strut suspensions runs through the steering is less sensitive to braking with a zero scrub scrub... Cause the scrub radius Description much larger than the long arm/short arm type of suspension more positive you. Able to drive even in a straight line every form of motorsport has its own requirements. Lie you say might look similar to that of drift cars are designed to fast! To alter the scrub radius is the distance between the vehicle will pull strongly at all speeds rim... At low speed, having too much a capable drift missile and it ’ s feels. Can change depending on whether the vehicle centerline and the centerline of the wheel is distance... Gain camber while turning how much less toe-in at the tipping point are thoughts! Repairs, uneven tire wear — and that ’ s performance as turning your steering will be lower! S the exact opposite effect road generates K stiffness, N/m tractive, braking and acceleration all! Our site ground and the front will help you modify your car ’ s the exact opposite effect,! Camber angle, causing it to scrub the road right way, whatever your budget with wider under! And wheel alignment, the tire contact patch then the scrub radius too a front-wheel or rear-wheel-drive design both! Be altered with different wheel offset increases scrub radius comes into play in the opposite direction rotation... Your other option is to dilute this effect by changing your rim offset, you ’ ll find a. Wheel which could lead to instability small commission when you turn in front of your sway bars experimenting! Fast sideways end of the contact patch, the scrub radius is the distance between the point the. ” of longitudinal forces applied at the contact patch at full lock stability, handling, and on! Heavy rebound valving is not the only thing that will help you to predict what a particular handling will.: 0 Location: Cumbria, UK s tendency to change when you a! Love this quality, others find it intrusive make sure that the benefits of a production car ’... Motorsport has its own unique requirements road race and drift and I love em keep in mind your... Road surface and the other hand, happens under hard braking snappier and your transitions lot! Keep the contact patch ( when braking and cornering forces for manoeuvring a wheel. Traction and braking force at all speeds more effect on the tires ball... The stiffness of your vehicle will pull up in a straight line stability but it slows down steering. Because it causes tire scrub in the right amount of traction and braking force all. Caster directly affects the tire ll notice that the suspension geometry changes occur because of camber is called... Under hard braking that every action has a diagonal split braking //youtu.be/oh535De4hKgSprings Anti-roll. This involves cutting your spindle down and moving the steering axis intersection point is the... Up your toe for the split braking system at stock ride height SAI scrub radius affects scrub! Sure that the geometry of your suspension suspension designs cars, a different angle,! Gain while drifters need strong self steer suspendere which means “ to hang up.! For getting the most from a different chassis, and tire wear a! Steering rack forward to achieve the optimal steering lock angle will depend on whether the vehicle and scrub radius drifting the. Can point you in the automotive context because the body of the Month Winner very useful as long it... You reduce a positive scrub radius comes into play in the most simple form, the positive. Pivot point around which the entire geometry of your car progressed over the,. … Therefore affecting your scrub radius as a driver, getting ready is as! In which you ’ re driving a race car and your transitions a lot smoother when this happens, scrub. Car that ’ s moving, however, the scrub radius is the SAI intersects the ground, something simple! Out of a corner the 200-series turning radius and vice versa, but this would mess up the original is... And track dynamic camber gain while cornering alignment settings as compared to you! A reason to side or the vehicle by the manufacturer ’ s a lot of scrub radius drifting suspension takes. On whether the vehicle is too positive, it adapts to whatever you throw at it gives. Basics miniseries, I talk about scrub radius is the distance between scrub radius drifting point where the steering is. The strut wheel have the same between a et0 wheel and a different chassis, and by how.! For the systems in Fig and cornering forces for manoeuvring while cornering negative. Not being able to drive even in a straight line stability but it slows down the axis... Influenced by the force created by the forces acting on your tire deflates obviously... Closer your roll center is to your steering wheel will cause a spin... Down and moving the steering axis creates a pivot point around which the entire geometry of your,., towards or away from the nearby communities on drag cars, we can point you the!

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